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Bartending School
"He's beyond bartending, beyond being a poor journeyman bartender, and has obviously morphed into a misinformed, opinionated, elitist snob." At first I thought I had a misdirected email for Jamie Boudreau. Then I realized it was for me. That is the opinion of one David Rattner, president of National Bartender's School, regarding me. There were a few more shots fired across my bow in his email, which is included below for your viewing pleasure. Now to address some of the accusations: Misinformed? Rarely. Elitist? Not! Snob? Only when in the company of vagrants and hobo's. Opinionated, well you got me there, and guess what, here it comes.
It all started with a question posted on my bartender's resumes article. The question is as follows:
Hey Darcy,
Just wondering whether or not it's a good idea to invest in bartending school. It seems that from what I've read (articles, comments, etc), bartender's hate people who went to bartending school. Would it be a better idea to not do it? Or do it and not put it on the resume? Awesome resume by the way.
I do try to answer as many questions as possible, so I gave my reply:
I don't find "bartending schools" teach you anything valuable. They actually give you the impression bartending is easy, then you get a job and find out it's not. The trend right now (and hopefully for a long time) is on quality drinks. Bar schools don't teach quality, they just teach speed. Unfortunately, speed is something that requires experience.
My advice, don't waste the money. Instead take the money you would have spent and go buy a couple of these Bartending Books, and read them from cover to cover. Cheers!
I thought that was a reasonable answer. Standard "bar schools" are still teaching number of drinks per minutes, etc. etc. The problem is it doesn't translate very well to the real world. Servers just walk past you and fire off 8 drinks they need, with specifics (i.e. holds, extra's, straight, rocks, etc.). Or the printer spazz's out at 5PM on a Friday and spits out 40 chits, in two minutes.
Anyway, whenever someone comments on posts here, if they have selected the "Subscribe to Comments" check box, they will get all the additional comments on that post. Here's where the trouble starts. Vanessa, an employee of National Bartender's School (NBS), had posted a comment about my resume. When she received my comment about bar schools, she was none-to-happy.
Dear Darcy:
Regarding bartending schools, I feel that this is an unfair statement. We teach you so much more than just speed. We teach you the fundamentals and give you the on hands experience that is needed to acquire general knowledge about the profession itself. Yes we cannot teach you everything under the sun and speed is something that is definitely learned as you progress, however prior to making such an unfair assessment of bartending schools as a whole, maybe you should do your research and really examine all and any facet of bartending schools as a whole. Maybe you should actually attend a class or two first and witnes [sic] for yourself, as to whether or not we teach quality.
Everyone needs a start and thats [sic] exactly what we do. I never once give my students the impression that bartending is easy and I make them fully aware as to what it truly entails. I beg to differ with you that we do not teach quality, we try our very best to instill [sic] in every student that quality is everything. They need to take pride in their work and the learning does not stop when they leave our door. They need to continue their education. I never paint a glorious picture for them. I am from New York and we have a very solid program that is licensed by New York State and allows many students to go out and truly have prosperous careers. We have been in business for over 20 years. I have had managers from the St. Regis Hotel take my program, a professor from Syracuse University, college students from Cornell, and Harvard. I have past students who have come back to thank me for gaining such insight, not just about bartending but customer service and the industry itself. I have ongoing relationships with my students because of our curriculum. Maybe you should speak with some of them before posting an absurd generalized statement about "all" bartending schools.
I am truly saddened that a professional like yourself would make such a bold statement about career schools without truly doing their research. I commented on your resume sometime last year and shared with you how I felt about the content. Not quite sure why you felt the need to share this post with me, however I will now stop using your site/resume as a point of reference when we teach our students about the professionalism of the career. Especially now that I see where you stand on career schools.
Please feel free to respond, being that you felt the need to share this with me in the first place.
Regards, Vanessa
Of course she CC'd the boss (Dave) and he chimed in with his delightful opinion:
Thanks so much for your excellent (and most valid) response, Vanessa.
I expect that your strong reaction to Darcey's [sic] thoughtless statements are not solely due to the gross invalidity of his comments. Your response is most likely driven by the great pride which you take in your work, as well as the great results which you consistently achieve.
Darcey [sic] surely sounds just like one those many snooty "mixologists" we have seen and heard quite a lot about lately during this most recent cocktail "renaissance". He's beyond bartending, beyond being a poor journeyman bartender, and has obviously morphed into a misinformed, opinionated, elitist snob. Good for him!
Besides the points you have made, and as you know, there are many other benefits to be garnered by those who have attended and graduated from a good bartending school (job placement support being just one). So, please do not be further upset or aggravated by this. Relax, and have yourself a wonderful cocktail while putting his resume to the shredder.
Where to start. I guess Dave is under a little pressure, with all us "snooty mixologists" setting standards and horning in on his New York bartender factory. The problem I have with the schools is they think 40 hours is plenty of time to become a bartender. Reality, McDonald's spends more time training their burger flippers than that. So basically, the bar schools are putting out McDonald's quality bartenders.
I have no problem with McDonald's--very tasty fries. But I don't want to eat them everyday, more like once or twice a month. If every bartender behind the stick gets only 40 hours of training, I'd only ever get to drink the simplest "cocktails". I don't want that, I want choice. The restaurant industry has chef's, some who go to school for years, but never stop learning, and we have the full spectrum of food to choose from because of this. The same cannot be said of bars, and bar schools are part of the problem.
Quality at a bar school means mixing the same old, boring, shortcut, cocktails over and over and over. Most of the bartending school recipes went out of style two decades ago. If you really want to learn about drinks, the proper way, check out Bar Smarts. It's a magnitude better than a "barschool".
At these schools, creativity is not part of the curriculum. Hell, tasting a decent cocktail isn't even part of the course. Do these students ever actually taste a real drink? It should be mandatory that they go on a field trip to PDT, Taylor, Pegu Club, etc. and taste a real cocktail, made by a professional bartender. Then go back and taste what the school teaches you, and watch the light bulbs go on.
The other problem with bartending schools is their heavy promotion of income and "social life", if you become a bartender. I looked on the NBS site and voila, there it was. In a short and simple five paragraph letter, here's excerpt's of what I found:
"very lucrative and exciting career"
"When you have completed our program, you will be qualified to work as a bartender in the best establishments."
"we have each personally experienced the good life that comes with bartending"
"So, whether your reason for joining is social, financial, or a combination thereof"
"Here's to an overflowing tip-cup! "
That's a lot promises, the letter reads like an infomercial. The questions is: Can their product deliver? The answer is: Only for the bottom rung jobs behind the bar. And the social life of those positions are...drunks, weirdo's and off duty hookers. Sorry, those are the facts.
The reality is that if you want to succeed at bartending, it takes effort, perseverance, thick skin, intelligence and stamina. Not a single one of these things can be taught. You can lead a fun life as a bartender, but 40 hours of training isn't going to get you there.
Bartending should be more like a "trade" with two years as an apprentice before gaining the title of bartender.
So to Dave and Vanessa, I'm sorry you find me, and many of my readers, so snooty. But, my opinion is that bar schools have nothing to do with genuine quality. This isn't the first time I've written about the divide in the world of bartending. But it is only a matter of time before the "Tom Cruise" style of bartending fades away like acid washed jeans and bad hair. Once a person has had a good cocktail, it's really hard to go back to drinking crap.
Now for a little confession (not really, I've mentioned it before). Many years a go I did take a bartending course. The most enlightening part for me was: "Why am I pouring water really fast and when do we get to taste a drink?" We never did try a drink.
How the hell is that going to help you? It's like a chef never tasting food, sommeliers never tasting wine and engineers never using a bloody calculator! After that short experience, I took up some weekend bar shifts, and not because of "bar school", I left that off my resume. I started tasting the "cocktail" recipes and wondered why the hell did people drink these? That's when I started researching cocktails, and Art of Drink is a direct response to the crap being taught and served at many bars.
Verdict: Bar Schools are cloning facilities. You will know nothing more than the thousands of people who attended before you, and they can't teach you what it is really like to work behind a bar. Courses like Bar Smarts and self motivated learning (books, blogs, etc.) are much better options to gain knowledge on drinks. Throw in some dedication, willingness to learn, a good mentor at a small local bar and you might get to live the "good life" of a bartender.
After having said all that, I feel compelled to highlight Jeffrey Morgenthaler's opinion on bar schools and the video reel of the American Bartending School.
ps. the "snooty mixologists" are probably some of the nicest people you will ever meet.
Update: Rick at Martini Groove has some additional commentary.
Update 2: David Rattner follows up with some commentary
1317 Comments on Bartending School
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As someone who actually WENT to a National Bartending School and has now moved on to being a cocktail "snob" I think I'm perfect for commenting here.
Vanessa's reply was actually somewhat fair and I think she did a good job defending her position. As soon as Dave chimed in though, he turned the whole thing in to a fiasco. Clearly, PR is not his forte.
So, I can only speak to the classes I went to. I imagine each city is a bit different and dependent on the who the teacher is.
The teacher came in most mornings letting us know how much of a bender she went on the night before, then proceeded to give about 15-20 minutes of instruction each day. The rest of the time was mostly making drinks off of the speed rack. A lot of the time was also about pouring colored water back in to the bottles to continue practice.
I don't understand why Vanessa says that speed is not the only thing. The final test to get your certificate is purely on your ability to make a certain amount of cocktails that the teacher throws at you in a limited amount of time. If you don't do it, you come back and take the test again.
This, to me, sounds like speed is the most important.
If you want to work at a dive bar, airport bar, TGI Fridays, or in catering, this school is just fine. However, it's mostly about memorizing the recipes in the book which is something you could download or get from hanging out at a bar long enough. Moreover, if you're going to work at any of the places I mentioned, you really only need to learn to make a 7&7 and rum & coke.
Sorry bartending schools, your scam is up and you're quickly turning in to a dinosaur. People like Dave know this and try to call professionals "snobs" just because that's the last resort of someone trying to justify their existence.
Rick, you forgot a vodka drink! Maybe vodka soda with sour mix or vodka Diet Coke.
I know two people that have gone to bartending school - both worked very briefly in the industry, then moved on to other things because they weren't able to get jobs outside the seediest clubs.
So, if bar school is a bad way to get a job at a bar, what's a good way? I've been making drinks at home for a couple years, but I haven't been able to even get my foot in the door at any of my local bars.
Modern Serf:
Click on the link to Morgenthaler's blog. He has a step-by-step program for people just like you. Order now!
Hear hear.
I never went to bartending school, but as someone that was a bartender for 5 years, and came up through the restaurant business, I think there are pros and cons to attending a bartending school. To learn the basics (free pouring, how many ounces in your basic drinks, etc), there could be something to be said for bartending school, especially if you're not currently in the restaurant business.
That being said, there is no substitute for real world experience, and the only way to get that is behind the bar on a Friday night when the drink orders start rolling in.
Darcy,
Keep up the good work, and I definitely agree with Rick's comments!
I personally took a job as a server to learn the menu first, then eventually started asking questions of the bartenders. Next thing you know, bar manager had to move away, and I was offered the job. I took over and instituted a "classic" cocktail program, tossed all the mixes, and went all fresh.
Everything I've learned has been from reading / researching on my own time... And now I'm working in, what I would consider, one of the best bars in my city.
I GUARANTEE you cannot learn the necessary skills to be a truly great bartender in a school. It just doesn't happen.
I'm still learning everyday.
Salud!
- B
The point that Darcy makes about his bartending class is a great one—I've always found it a bit odd that the emphasis of bartending school is on the mechanics of the tasks to be performed at the exclusion of craftsmanship. I could really care less if someone can free pour two ounces of whiskey into my Manhattan, but I can guarantee you that I will care if s/he free pours badly and makes me a sub-par drink.
But I guess that's just because I'm a misinformed, opinionated, elitist snob who doesn't drink to get trashed on vodka "cocktails" some kid learned to make with colored water.
I create cocktails at home and I started by creating a few tasty drinks that people really enjoyed. I've played with mixes, basic recipes and try to broaden my knowledge as I went. My video show started out with some pretty basic drinks, even a few with a couple bottles of mix and a few alcohols. Ten months of creating video's has taught me a lot... but I'm not fast at creating cocktails nor do I have bar experience.
I do have people experience, I create drinks at family events, friends parties, etc. I've yet to have anyone dislike a drink and they're all extremely surprised at the quality of a Trader Vic style Mai Tai, Mojito, Pain Killer, Chocolate Vodka Martini, Zombie and others. If someone comes back for another (or a third) that's validation enough, they may say it's "good" to be nice, but why would they drink three in a row if they didn't enjoy it?
Taste is everything. Taste the drinks, taste them again and drink another. Taste each ingredient by itself to see what it does to the cocktail, remove it from the cocktail recipe and try that... big difference? Experimentation and tasting. I read a few books to light my path to knowledge but most of what I've learned I let my palate do the walking.
After tasting a few hundred different recipes and variants I feel I've got a bit of "real experience" in what a good cocktail should taste like from sweet to sour or full of color. 10-months, no bar school learning and my audience is growing daily. I don't see a need to certify myself when I've got download statistics that show me people like what I do. :-)
Darcy,
Great post again. As a manager at a restaurant I frequently have people drop off applications with a fresh bartending certificate and absolutely NO restaurant experience. The bottom line is that without any real world experience I will not hire anyone with just a Bartending certificate. I will often ask these prospective employees their favorite drinks to make. I always hear the same response; Long Island, Bloody Mary, Apple Martini. When I ask how they make them, they answer in "counts" not ounces. While people do have to start somewhere, and bartending schools may provide a basic basic, it is not anywhere close to being qualified to be a bartender.
Excellent post, Darcy.
I took a one-week bartending course when I was 18, and I can tell you it didn't help me a bit. It didn't teach me anything I didn't already know about the most basic of "cocktails" and it certainly didn't help me get a job. I still had to work my way up from hostess and server before I was ever given a chance behind the bar. Nobody cared that I had was "licensed." Sometimes, you just have to pay your dues.
Wow, I learned a lot reading this post. Heading to bookstores to get the books, thanks Darcy.
Hey, Darcy...
Thanks for sharing your correspondence. I manage a bar that specializes in all hand-shaken, fresh juice-based cocktails. I got the job because I had almost 10 years practical experience...worked my way up from counter girl at the food counter of a brewery to barbacking at that brewery, to finally bartending all the crap shifts that no one else wanted. I never attended bartending school, and when patrons ask me where I went to school, I tell them "the school of hard knocks". I have to admit that I am actively biased against bartending school certificate-holders when they come apply for jobs at my establishment. Maybe because of the way I had to work hard to learn in a real-world environment, I have no interest in an employee who chose "the easy route"...40 hours of pouring water and pretso! You're a bartender? Not in my opinion...sorry if that's harsh, but it's true.
Darcy...
I wanted to drop a line and weigh in on this discussion about bartending schools. It seems odd to me that such a benign commentary as yours would spark such a debate, but since the floor is open, I'd like to share my thoughts.
First, for full disclosure, while I am a 12 year veteran behind the stick, I have never had any sort of "formal" training. I learned all that I know by working, and more over, by making mistakes, and learning from them. I have formed my thesis and style in the way that I can only assume most barkeeps do, trial and error, trend exploration, and hard knocks. I advocate this to anyone who wants to "learn" the craft of bartending, and make no mistake, it IS a craft, not a profession, or rather, not JUST a profession. While it is true that those of us who are dedicated to the art & science of cocktails are fortunate enough to experience an elevated form of lifestyle and income, the truth is that those rewards can not, and should not be the motivating factor to pick up a jigger.
Which brings me to the topic that I think those advocating for Bartending Schools have not yet been asked to account for. I believe that it is not about what you DO learn in those programs, so much as it is about what they CANNOT teach you. They cannot teach you a passion for the craft, and each of its integral components. All of the 40 hour programs in the world do not make up for the natural curiosity that a bartender, mixologist or cocktail enthusiast has to possess in order to further their own career as well as propel the craft. I will concede that it is absolutely requisite to learn the basic foundations of drink pouring. I will also concede that developing a sense of urgency in your service is fellow to a successful career. I think, however, it is important to note that as with any other course of study, where you get your "basics" and how much they cost you is not in anyway related to your overall success in those studies. I think it also begs to be noted that a "certificate" earned as a pharmacy technician does not a pharmacist make. It takes years of study in multiple disciplines to achieve that status. Bartending, and its study, should be approached similarly in my professional opinion. As a bar manager, I will typically reject the applications of those who attended similar programs because the curriculum is not focused on consistent quality beverages in as much as it is focused on quantity, and the resulting bartender is much like a machine that cannot be de-programmed and impressed with the tenets of preparation and service that I require them to reflect when representing my establishment and overall concept. But hey, that's just how I do business.
I guess what I wanted to convey to those who might happen across your blog with the query about these drink-pouring academies is that above all, a certificate earned in fundamentals is never going to make up for valuable real-time experience, nor can it instill in you the desire to truly master you craft, and all of its necessary components. The truly great masters of the art of the cocktail are those who immerse themselves completely in all of its articles, not just the faculties that make a quick buck.
Thanks for the space,
Matthew
I would like to applaud Vanessa's comments! As an owner of a bartending school myself I am constantly struggling to lose the stigma that bartending school is a scam and merely teaches recipes and gives false hopes about making money. I am up-front with every student, and tell them that they need to start off slow to gain confidence and speed. What's wrong with that? Every bar has that one slow Monday day shift that no one wants to cover.
My school is unique, and I actually own a real bar. I am also a certified teacher. I know how to teach and I know what's expected of an employee. I feel that in order for someone to learn what is taught in two weeks you would have to work in a restaurant for many years. And BTW, I only my students at my bar and some have proven to be rock stars right off the bat and could work the busiest shifts within a short period of time.
It is true that there are some bad schools out there--many owned by a washed up bartender trying to make a living. But like Vanessa says, we are not all like that and you're welcome to sit in on one of our classes to judge for yourself.
Denise
Bucks County School of Bartending
Bensalem, Pa
Well, this is a big put down on bartending schools. I'm the dave that had the 13th comment on Jeffrey Morganthaler's post that you refer to. It was a couple of years ago. He responded with a kind comment.
With others I operate a couple of bartending schools. Jeffrey had a nice response back then. We still operate the same way as we did then. I don't have my finger on actual hard job leads on that school as I did then, but if you want to see a lot of activity for that school you can check either the twitter acct /pbsplacement or search for a group in facebook at Washington DC Professional Bartending School.
A lot of grads are getting jobs.
I don't see bartending schools holding the same role you guys do. You are in an advanced arena. We aren't. We train beginning bartenders. Gee, there might be a lot of graduates of Harvard that are now corporate CEO's--but they didn't start out that way.
Hey...and of course we aren't Harvard. LOL. We are a trade school. We help people get started. If they stick in the industry, develop their skills, develop a taste for finer drinks and fancier settings they evolve to become like you and Jeffrey. Kudo's to those who do. It is not the majority.
The other thing is that we see so many types of bars, clubs, hotels, restaurants, etc. that hire from us. Its amazingly diverse. Most though don't produce the types of drinks and knowledge that you guys showplace. There are places for all types of bartending.
As to those that develop a taste for quality as referenced above, my experience is that it reflects a very small minority of our grads, let alone most bartenders in the industry. In that regard bartenders are no different than any other working folks in any other industry.
Interesting article. Don't lump our schools with some of the others. We have actually owned a bar, been in every type of job in the industry, owned bar schools for a couple of decades. One thing that is different is that we have always invested heavily in money and hours to help grads get jobs. We don't guarantee jobs. Its illegal and a stupid promise. On the other hand we can show excellent results.
2ndly. We play a different role than you guys. I'm speaking for our schools....not the others. We have grads who reach levels similar to the writer here, other great writers on cocktails and mixology, but that isn't what we teach. We help get them started. Writers here, help get them inspired.