National Bartenders School

I've worked in a restaurant as a bar-back previously, though now I'm just an enthusiast. I'd prefer, by orders of magnitude, to have a bartender cut from Darcy's mold rather than the cookie cutter approach with no sense of history or understanding of the ingredients that Rattner seems to delight in churning out. I don't want the latest technicolor concoction that's tested well with the fraternity and sorority markets, I want something that actually tastes good and is made with a sense of craft and interest, rather than some tepid crunk that gets thrown together in 23 seconds so the bartender can go back to flirting.

Darcy - the phrase that you're looking for is ad hominem attacks, and you are right, as soon as one member of the arguing party chooses to attack their opponent rather than the topic at hand, then they have conceded the moral high ground for the sake of making themselves feel better.

Dave sounds either a little myopic or threatened, which is too bad. Rather than accept a little constructive criticism (or, at the very least, dissenting opinion) he decides to get disagreeable. He should be grateful that drinks and cocktail blogs are helping to create a greater demand for quality bartenders and try to step up his program and meet these new challenges.

Keep up the good work and don't get in the gutter with that guy. It isn't dignified.

I dunno Darcy, I went to Bartending School and let me tell you, my time spent watching videos and memorizing horrific recipes was time well spent, though money poorly.

and yes, I tasted the colored water. Really, at Culinary institutes do they cook with plastic or putty? Hard to believe that at these schools the end result is never even tasted.

Dave should try reading Darcy's resume a little better, considering Darcy has actually worked behind the stick. Then maybe he'd know to avoid heckling him like he seems to have avoided heckling Morgenthaler (or maybe Jeff just isn't sharing his comments).

HAHAHA!!! A search for 'National Bartending School David Rattner' on google has this article as the second in results.... even higher than David Rattner's Plaxo listing... LOL!!!

Hmmmm...would I want to go to the Art of the Drink and learn from Darcy how to make a delicious cocktail with fresh ingredients, or...would I want to go to Angry Dave's School of Speed ("We take your money [i]really[/i] fast!") and learn how to pour colored water so that I could quickly make a crappy cocktail with pre-made mixers?

Sorry Angry Dave, but I'm going to have to side with Darcy on this one. But please continue to tell yourself that you are doing a good job and you are making real bartenders while you sit around, sucking down another colored-water cocktail.

I'm sure that pouring colored water in 40 seconds flat is quite the achievement.

I have to admit, I was kind of torn while reading this post. I just came across this website this morning for the first time and was really getting into reading all the older posts. I was really enjoying your point of view on many of the topics you've covered relating to bartending. Then I came across this post, and now I don't know what to think. I'm a bartender at a private country club in New York. If the drinks that you pour are not of the HIGHEST quality when you serve them, the members will not even think twice before sending the drink back and demanding a new one. And that being said, the general manager would not keep me around if that was happening often and I was wasting his inventory on messed up drinks. When I got my job there, there was no real training provided. I started as a waitress, and as I waited for a drink order to be made for one of my tables one day, I watched as the bartender shook the hell out of a Tanqueray martini and I CRINGED. I made a comment to the dining room manager about it, as it bothered me that much, and he ended up taking the bartender aside after his shift and telling him the do's and don'ts of making a quality cocktail. Since that day, I've been working behind the bar there. I work as a bartender, in a high end establishment, where quality (not speed) is the main priority. That being said, where did I get my bartending training?

I am a bartending school graduate. Not only did I graduate from a bartending school, but actually from the National Bartenders School, run by David Rattner. He is actually one of nicest guys you could ever meet. He goes out of his way to make sure that his students at the school succeed. I understand and respect your opinion of bartending "factories", as I do know people who have taken bartending courses elsewhere and have learned nothing important from them, but don't generalize and say that this is the case with all bartending schools. There are a few exceptions to the rule out there, and National Bartenders School (in my opinion anyway) is one of them. Yes, it's true that you can't graduate from a Bartending School and think that you're going to get hired immediately for some amazing job at a prestigious bar or anything like that. But as far as fundamentals go, and how to be quick and efficient behind a bar, attending a bartending school can be a real asset. I don't want to sound like I'm promoting this bartending school or agree with any type of personal trashing because of a dissenting opinion, because I don't. But I can see where David and Vanessa would take to heart your bashing of bartending schools in general and be offended by it, and I think their opinions are more than valid, because they are people who are really dedicated to teaching their students things that will actually help them succeed in the job market, and they do a very good job of it.

Greetings Darcy- Dave Ratner doesn't sound like an angry bartender. He sounds more like someone who has never bartended. My sources tell me that he has NEVER bartended. He took his bartender training from another school in NYC after purchasing his present school. You have to laugh at the arrogance he has displayed. Imagine, commenting as he did, on something he himself has never done. And teaching it nonetheless. LMAO!! I imagine that art of drink. is where he gets his material to teach the naive students that pass through his doors. I remember an old saying" Your ONLY as GOOD as YOUR teacher. I must question, then, the last part of his email that states "Through these doors walk America's greatest bartenders"....hmmmmmmm

OMG!!!! Now that's hysterical!!! Small world Angry Dave! What's next, crash course on lobotomies101. What's the difference between an idiot teaching something they have never done before to a paying crowd and a lobotomy patient? A: At least the lobotomy patient has half a brain! Good Luck to You Mate (shaking my head in disbelief)

Lindsay, thanks for the comment on National Bartenders. Even though there may be a dozen good bar schools, it doesn't make up for the thousands of bad ones. Bar schools teach way to many shortcuts and there have been so many times where some barschool graduate attempts to inform me that I've made a cocktail wrong (Singapore Sling and Mai Tai especially). Unfortunately, they were taught wrong as I've done my research, but it still leaves me in a very hard spot behind the bar. Customers are always right? No, but they do pay my wages.

I do appreciate your intelligent comment. As for David Ratner, his email speaks for itself. Dissenting opinion is not acceptable to him. There opinions are as valid as mine, but at the end of the day it will all boil down to whether people enjoy drinks made properly or made the barschool way.

I know in the city I live in, most restaurants don't employ bartenders because nobody ever orders the cocktails because they taste horrible. The reason is the multitude of shortcuts being taken.

Don't judge me based on one opinion about bar school, I'm not a fan because they lower the quality and expectations of cocktails. A slack teaching environment leads to slack drinks.

I just came across from this post having googled bartending school and happen to be an aspiring bartender going to NBS. That being said I will say that it is truly a great school. The instructors do teach more than bartending such as customer service, upselling, and TIPS. Maybe it's not for everyone and yes I will admit that there have been times that I have questioned if my money was well spent. The answer to that is yes and not because the course will have made me a superstar or even mediocre bartender, but because it has taught me so much. Maybe I would not spend the money all over again and just start as a waitress had I done more research or came across this post sooner, but I have no regrets at all. When I want to practice, they have a bar setting to practice and maybe I can't "taste" the end result, but I went into bartending because I respect it as a career, not because I want to sit around tasting drinks all day. (I am not a big drinker weed is my poision so to speak more health benefits to it.) I am leaving this post and starting to wonder if that is gonna hold me back as I will be mixing drinks for a living. I don't think so as I see it as an art and way a creative person can express themselves and make $ while doing it. Let's hope I am right and I will be checking out that book of yours.

I'm so glad I read this because I was planning on attending this school in January. Can anyone recommed a good school in the Los Angeles area, or give me any advice on how/where to learn to become a good bartender?

Bartending school prepares you for working in a high-volume club. And in a high-volume club, you're probably going to have to start as a barback. But most grads think because they took a course, they're ready to bartend and won't take a job as a barback. Too bad, because you'll make more as a barback on a high volume weekend shift than at most places that'll hire you with no real experience. You can't pay your dues in this field with cash.

There are so many things bartending school doesn't prepare you for adequately... and these are the things that will immediately give away the fact that you have no real experience:
- side work
- cleaning
- 12 hour shifts on your feet
- changing kegs
- washing glassware
- opening wine properly
- handling cash
- dealing with POS systems

etc. etc. etc.

"I went into bartending because I respect it as a career, not because I want to sit around tasting drinks all day."

God, if a chef said that (replace "drinks" with "food"), I'd just laugh in his face. It's just food, it's just supposed to fill you up, right? That's the bartending school attitude... it's just booze, it's just supposed to get you drunk. Who cares how it tastes...

A good bartender tastes every drink he makes.

"A good bartender tastes every drink he makes."

..and hopefully not drinking from the same glass he/she is serving me. I would expect a Chef to taste the dish before serving..while it's still in the pan. Not eating from the finished plate!

On the subject of bar-tending school, although I agree it's not going to completely prepare someone for bar-tending, I would like to point out that it is, at the very least, providing a foundation for someone with no experience/knowledge of the subject. This is the whole experience versus formal training debate though, and it rages on no matter what profession it is you are discussing (from aviation to IT, kitchens to barbershops).

I just wanted to say that the kind of arrogant 'pissant' that Dave is talking about he actually seems to have proven of himself. He is also the president/director of a bunch of delusionists. Bartending schools are a waste of money, because certified bartender is non-existant. So what if you have a piece of paper that says so, all it does is prove that you overpaid some yahoo like Dave to taste drinks for a few weeks. I used to work with a 'certified bartender,' (which he proudly told any and everyone.) I carried him every shift we worked together, even the Friday night I had a migraine. So feel free to waste your money or do some research on your own. I reccommend asking a bartender you admire, they'll be happy to teach you some stuff for free!

I'll jump in, too. I've posted comments on this topic before. I, too, went to a bartending school. I felt it was money well spent. I have a regular full-time job as an urban planner but bartend at private parties on the side. Going to the school got my foot in the door, presented the basics and got me comfortable making and serving drinks efficiently and effectively.

With that said, the fact of the matter is that bartending schools churn out the culinary equivalent of McDonald's chefs; churn'em out and git-r-done. It's a bartending 101 level course. Where you go and take the next step is up to you.

For better or for worse, there are plenty of spaces for graduates of these schools regardless of their ability. Drive down any urban road and count the number of fast-food restaurants compared to 5-star ones.

These schools prepare bartenders for the lowest common denominator. I argue that there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I don't say that I like it but there it is. It's also why I don't order mixed drinks when I go out - the chances of finding a true bartender, even at the finest establishments (not that I can afford to go to the finest establishments but that's another story) is slim to none.

My advice is, if you are thinking about attending one of these schools, to check them out against the BBB and observe a class or two. I suspect that the quality of classes will vary wildly.

I attended a school where the instructor rolled his eyes every time he mentioned sweet-n-sour mix and on the side talked about how he enters drink contests using nothing but fresh juices/ingredients. Like in any educational setting a lot boils down to the quality of the instructor.

Of course none of this has any bearing whatsoever on the fact that Mr. Rattner appears to be a bit of an insecure jerk.

Darcey, my advice is not to enter into a battle of wits with the unarmed.